Being A Better Teacher With Ken Wallace Of Educator Impact

Be a better teacher you can be and be a part of a positive school culture.

Ken Wallace is the CEO of Educator Impact, who look to support teachers, leaders, and support staff improve their practice.

Ken chats about how to empower your school to grow professionally in an environment that is safe, simple and supportive.

We discuss various ways you can bring your entrepreneurial skills to contribute to best practice school-wide.

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It’s quite interesting; I think my background because I’m kind of like from this, you know, pretty hardcore family of educators. So my partners in academic, she’s an academic, so she, she’s in tertiary. My brother’s a teacher. My mom’s a teacher; my dad was an academic, my grandfather was a principal. So that’s kind of like education, the bones, but I did while I was at uni, I ended up kind of doing a math degree and kind of went down a different path. So I kind of got into data, and then spend a lot of time with startups in various industries, and telecommunications and, and in marketing. And, and then I’ve kind of found myself back in education, which has been really exciting, because it’s a real passion of mine, I got young kids at school, and I get to kind of bring a bunch of different skills into, into

education from, from my experience and other industries into startup. So it’s been a bit of a kind of roundabout way to get into education. But, um, yeah, over the last five years, I guess I’ve been kind of myself and the other co founder, we’ve been kind of pioneering this feedback platform and education. And it’s, it’s been really exciting, it’s a great place to, to, to be innovative, great industry to be in, you know, everyone’s comes to this industry, I think with a great purpose in mind, and a great

excitement about having a bit of an impact. So, um, yeah, so it’s good to be in education.

Yeah, and it’s crazy how those two worlds are kind of kind of linked in a way like I, I actually went to university to start to study marketing, and did it for a little bit, and then ended up becoming a teacher. And now I’m a teacher who also owns like, a marketing business as well. And it’s crazy how it all like, it’s very different industries, but they’re built on sort of similar foundations, in a way, just like developing trust. And

the same way you, you know, educate students is, you know, the idea of marketing, and especially, like, the content side, which I’m in is all education and building that trust and relationships.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I told I totally agree. I think, you know,

the skills that you have, and that you need education beyond well, even within teaching the very similar skills in building, you know, if you talk about some of your spice about building a business or whatever, it is an education, it’s very similar schools, I mean, you really got to create relationships with people, you’ve got to know what they need, and where they’re going. And, you know, those kind of things are really important in teaching as they are, and in, you know, building a business or doing some other project, whether it’s marketing or content. So similar things, I mean, they’re different, but it’s similar skills.

Yeah, and I think that’s why teachers and educators make such great business owners as well as, because lot of the skills in teaching are, you know, transferable in one way or another, especially when it comes down to that knowing, you know, knowing your customer avatar, and things like that. And it’s way, you know, we’re used to dealing with 30 different students a day and knowing the ins and outs and their wants and needs. And it’s Yeah, it’s, it’s funny how the two, the two similar

similar foundations there, I guess, very soon, absolutely. Couldn’t agree. Yeah.

And what I love about what you’re bringing in, and like you said, You’re, you’re a math person, and you’re, you’re a number jockey, and you’ve got you collecting data, and doing businesses and whatnot. And one thing that we in the education system is, you know, is pushed all the time is being able to collect proper data, and being able to not only just having the numbers in front of you, but actually sort of knowing what to do with them,

and just got a little bit more into educator impact. You you touched on it a little bit, like you touched on briefly before, just give me a bit more of an insight about what all that’s about.

Yeah, cool. So I guess where we try and solve a problem is around the challenge of how do you how do you help

educators

become more effective in their roles. And, you know, that’s not just education. I mean, that’s a common theme around many, many industries, whether it’s health or, or financial services at the moment, but, but it’s, it’s a common thing for, for industries to look in, would say, will Academy make our resources more, more impactful, more effective, how did we get, you know, better results, and, you know, the, the, the evidence around improving student outcomes, and improving teacher effectiveness. And when we talk about educator effectiveness, we go well beyond teaching, and I’ll talk about that later will be on teachers

like the, the evidence around the IMPACT Act of if you can get an improvement in teaching effectiveness, that translates into better student outcomes, right. So that’s, that’s the one lever that we can really pull to improve the system.

And I think the opportunity is that teachers are keen to do this, like, it’s not as if they don’t want to get better. Like everyone, I think the the idea of improvement is

more and more accepted in many industries. But teachers want to do this, and there’s resources to do this. So there’s professional development budget that’s allocated within schools and across networks. So and there’s, there’s programs that work, right. So I think

that’s kind of where we, where we play is that will How do you if you’re going to do it, and people are going and teachers are going to take it on board, what are the what are the kind of one of the key elements that that that solution is going to have. So for us, it’s about, Well, you’ve got to align people with best practice. So you’ve got to go what is what is best practice teaching requires in the classroom, and then a lot. So if you’re going to work on something, work on something that’s going to have an impact, like, if you’re going to develop a skill work on a skill that’s going to have an impact on the on student outcomes. That’s number one, developed frameworks. And best practice number two is get data and evidence about how you’re going so well, how am I going at x skill or whatever, and use that data to developer to come up with a development goal to say, well, with based on the information that I’ve gotten from

classroom observation, from self reflection from student feedback, what are the what is it telling me about my teaching practice, and what can I work on my strengths, which are always really important, but also other opportunities for improvement that I love particular I can focus in on. And then beyond just sending a Development Goal where I think a lot of other systems have traditionally kind of stopped, ours kind of starts there. So we then go, we’ll look at you’re working a particular competency, how do we help you with your goals. So we’ve got our portal has resources related to improving that skill, you can track progress, reflections, coaching, conversations, things that you’ve done in the classroom, to try and achieve your goals. So that’s all on track. And then the, the kind of one of the bit that we do, which is really important, because there are a lot of our expertise is in behavior change. And technology is making this really simple and easy for teachers to do every year, right, so that it becomes part of your professional development, always. So you should always begin better. So we call it always on PD, that’s kind of our thing is how do you create an ecosystem where you’re always thinking about getting better, every lesson you guys are, how to do that, how can improve it and shifting away from I think the, you know, once a quarter PD days, where everyone kind of comes together, and you know, everyone improves kind of magically, I think it’s moving more towards, let’s, let’s make PD something that we’re always thinking about. So that’s kind of what we’re trying to do is make that whole process is super simple and easy to engage with a lot touch. And the big payoff for us and for schools that use our platform is that you, you start to create these cultures of

continual improvement. And once you establish these cultures, they kind of, they get a life of their own, you start to get teachers and every everyone within the team really actively engaged with that improvement mindset. So that’s kind of where we will we sit is improving effectiveness of educators, people want to change and making, making that improvement, really simple and easy and aligned with the things that matter. And the outcome is that, you know, you start to build these characters improvement within the school. And that kind of creates a life of its own, and I think had some, you know, they have been shows that has really good impact on student outcomes. So, that’s our, that’s our space. And I guess where we’ve kind of slightly shifted that is the beyond teaching. We also look at it well, what is leadership look like? What is best practice leadership,

and also, we’ve, we’ve launched pioneered the development of a framework for support staff as well. Okay, so many of our clients, early clients were like, we’ve got teachers or leaders doing this, but we’ve got this really important part of that school community who, who aren’t engaged with any PD, I mean, it’s a real problem. So we pioneered that over a couple of years, so that our school can have everyone engaged with this idea of let’s, let’s, let’s make it clear what good practice looks like in our different roles. And let’s get some data and how we’re going and let’s improve and get better at every day. So that’s what we do.

Yeah, I love that. And I love the word culture, you put in there a few times. And that’s, that’s what it is like. It’s setting that culture and making sure you are looking after the support staff and having, you know, development for support staff and leadership and teachers as well. And that helps develop a culture and I think what you’re doing by including all of the parties in the school and a lot of the stakeholders, there is is a really great way to help almost boost and kickstart that culture change and put it in fast forward, I guess,

yeah, absolutely. I mean, it’s the support staff stuff, it’s a really interesting space. So I just, I even think that whole industry is going to kind of transform even even what they call themselves. Like in some schools, it’s non teaching and other schools, it’s professional services and some schools that support staff, it needs its own identity, that’s that seen as a really important cog in the culture. And we’re getting a lot of lot of interest around around that program. Because it’s part of our, you know, a bigger Ico ecosystem that the schools trying to create around, look, we’re all in this role trying to improve. And it also, you know, it cascades to the, to the students, right, when they see teachers looking for improvement, and looking for feedback, and put student voice around their experiences the student and they’re seeing other people, everyone’s engaged and engage with this, it’s a really good message, I think, for the for the students to know that we’re all learning. We’re all on a journey and lifetime learners kind of thing. So you can create a really, really great culture. And we’ve just released I am a case study called treasure hunt, which is basically about one of our schools. We’ve been using the platform since the beginning, there were one of our first pilot schools for five years, and I’ve just created this amazing culture. So really amazing story. Treasure Hunt,

yeah, yeah, I love the idea of constant improvement as well. And it’s always the thing where, if you imagine our practice, as teachers, if you imagine that almost those those behaviors in a student like you would almost be a polling, like, imagine, if one of your students was only sort of expected to learn for half a day, every term, you know, and I, and like, when there’s a paid a session on like you would be, you’d be modified. So you should be trying to do your best every day and trying to get a little bit better. And like, while there are a lot of teachers, and there are, you know, we’re working so hard, and we are, you know, looking to improve and, like you said, the wants to improve is, there it is, that did have a culture change, to get to where you’re always thinking about payday, and instead of putting it in the back of your mind, it’s more towards the front as well.

Yeah, absolutely. I think if you if you think about like,

I don’t know if this is, is a good example. But if you think of like a professional sports person, like they’re always thinking about every interaction they have in, like, in the SOC, again, like, how could have done that better? And, you know, as teachers and educators, there’s just every opportunity, like, how could that lesson have been better, you know, how could I have helped the students through this problem better, there’s always opportunity to change. And I think it’s that lens that you want to get people to kind of, look at their, their teaching and their interactions with students you want that lens to be present at all times, is always thinking, or how can do that better, because there’s always

and that’s a shift that’s happening. I mean, I think teaching and professional development, and that growth mindset has really changed in the last 10 years.

I mean, my mom talk for, you know, 40 years, and no one ever saw her teach, you know, that’s, that’s changed fundamentally, in the last five to 10 years, and education in Australia, which is great, but I think it’s got, you know, got a lot, it’s got more to go. As far as kind of everyone getting on board, this idea of that we can constantly get better, what we can’t do is constantly be away from teaching, to get better, you’ve got to be, it’s like, out of the gym, right? You can’t go to the gym once a quarter and get better, you got to be going on a regular basis. And, and getting fit, you know, and, and practicing. So that’s the kind of thing we’re trying to create a society where you can have a clear idea about the things that you can improve and that you’re constantly chipping away at it, you know, just, you know, trying new things, learning new things, talking to people watching on the teachers that are that might be good at the skill that you’re trying to improve, like, creating that whole culture so that everyone’s everyone’s all everyone’s always trying to get a little bit better.

Yeah, and that’s the thing, it’s, it’s so easy to do that now it is like the tools that are out there. And there’s even free tools out there like you could whip up a Google form if you wanted to, and just get some quick you know, off the cuff student data, you know, make a little quick survey up or something like that about how your lesson went, if you tried something, you just get something and it’s especially when it comes to getting student data and getting student feedback. One thing I found can is just how honest the students will be if you sort of explain the process and why you’re doing what you’re doing and why you want to get better and this you know your honest feedback will help me get better which will in turn help you get better as well and it’s amazing how how honest they are

yeah it says couple of things in it unpack like I wouldn’t I wouldn’t mind talking about the Do It Yourself version

Yeah, you’re Casper

your comments around student feedback is, is is bang on. And so that the, the Measures of Effective Teaching that the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation put out a number of years ago was it was really clear about student feedback. So students know when the when they’re when they’re putting Oppo could teach us, they really know the difference. And their feedback is, is really insightful around the areas that that people can improve. So I think it’s a really important part of, of the, the, the learning that you get, as a teacher to go, Well, this is what I’m great at, and how to use those strengths to maybe improve the areas that there’s opportunity to develop. And they do that across the board. And we’ve done like, I can, I don’t even know what the numbers are that like, millions survive.

And across the board. Students take this seriously. They and they understand that, okay, this is my, this is my opportunity to, to have a voice and, and they provide really insightful feedback for teachers. So yeah, super important. And

I think it’s a space that’s going to grow. I mean, we only do in our system, quantitative feedback. So there’s no free text. But we’ve started to get a lot of schools who kind of want more free text feedback from students. But I think so. Which is interesting space for sure.

Yeah, and that, yeah, like we said, the tools are out there to do it. And we all were touching on DIY sort of options in your own classroom. Because at the end of the day can, you can, you can wait for your school to make changes. And as any teacher knows, like, with Once you’re at a school and getting things implemented, can take some time. But what you are in control of Katie’s like you’re in control of your own classroom? And if you want to be able to have some methods of collecting that data, and some DIY approaches, what could some of those pay for a teacher who wants to start the process early?

Yeah, that’s really it. So I think there’s two bits of the DIY in our space. So what what we find,

and

I think when you think about, if you think about the kind of ecosystem where we’re in around, okay, everyone’s trying to get better, everyone knows that getting better as good is really important. It’s one of the most important things we can do to improve the system and student outcomes. And now, it’s time by time as a, as a as a resource. That’s very short. And we’ve got, you know, teachers are very busy, huge commitments on on administration, and teaching and, and lesson preparation. So that it’s a, it’s a busy space. And so I mean, you’re, you’re a lot of your podcast is around being innovation, innovative. And, and I think, I think when we, when we looked at some schools who have tried to do this themselves, and I’m not talking like the classroom teacher doing it themselves, that’s when schools have tried to do something like, I think themselves, what you end up having is now the head of teaching and learning will go out, they’ll spend, you know, weeks or whatever, trying to develop the right questions. And then there’s committees agreeing on one of the right questions to ask students, the questions themselves might, there might be some validation issues, because they’re not structured perfectly, because it’s a new skill to someone’s learning. And then they’re spending, you know, the better part of a month, you know, collecting surveys and putting them in spreadsheets, spreadsheets, and that could be privacy issues, and all sorts of stuff. And instead of using a tool, they’ve developed it themselves to get started, which is, it’s the right it’s the right idea, but you know, end up spending the time you want them, spending is on helping people get better and learn the skills as opposed to doing admin. So for us, that’s a key thing that we’re trying to do is beyond

motivating people to do this stuff, it’s also to go, don’t do it yourself. Because this is this is hard, it’s complex, there’s lots of data, there’s lots of bits that you kind of need to connect and spend your time invest in a tool and spend your time then unpacking the data and using using the tool as opposed to develop your own. So that’s at the school level. But that doesn’t stop a teacher who kind of wants to get started. And, and by all means, yeah, look, you know,

you can do a Google form you can use, you can use our platform as well. But, um, it can be done. And you should, you know, if you want to get some feedback in your, in your, from your students, or from a classroom observation, and it’s not happening in your, in your school, then, yeah, look, you know, try and find a student survey online, or something like that, there’s probably some questions that you want to ask them in and ask the questions and get some data and use that data to make adjustments. You know,

we’ve got some, you know, amazing stories of, you know, teachers who have, you know, gone out to the class, using our tool, got some feedback, and then had another conversation with the students around the outcome. And what one of the examples was this teacher had, there was a big perception gap between what she thought was, she was giving good feedback to what the students thought was back they wanted, and so they had a discussion around this big gap. And so part of it was recognizing, you know, what, his feedback and also there they’re feeling was, they didn’t really have a sense of how they were going to go in a particular report or, or assignment that we’re doing. So they agreed this kind of traffic light that said, you know, you know, based on where you are, now, this is going to be, you know, an extra result, you know, said, these are the things you need to improve. So, that dialogue that happened was, was really powerful. So,

I love that. And it’s such a great opportunity to further the conversation. Because, yeah, you can, you can go and collect data for yourself, and you can go and do if it be a simple exit ticket, or if it be a more formalized, like a form or survey or something like that. And you get that feedback, obviously, you’re, you’re going to act on it. But if that’s the last the students know about it, I think you can, you can spend 1520, even 30 minutes depending on the conversation in the class, we’re talking about it and discussing it. And look, I’m I’m here

I want to be, you know, up here at these couple of things. What’s, what’s one thing you want to say me doing? Like, what does this look like to you as a student and giving them that input as well. And I think it’s so valuable. And like you said, time is always an issue. But these are the things that make people work more effectively. And the lack of time isn’t always I guess a good way to put it is being busy and being effective at two very different things,

you could spend a lot of time doing things that aren’t getting the results that, you know, spending an extra 20 minutes at the start, you know, conducting a survey, and then another 20 minutes discussing it with the students, you know, that 40 minutes could save you hours down the track?

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, couldn’t couldn’t agree more. It’s a, it’s a, an investment, right, that’s going to pay off. I mean, and that’s the great thing about if you think about the growth mindset for for, for anyone in any kind of industry is that when you’re busy, you know, you do feel like this actress can, last thing I can,

I can find time for is is trying to improve, but it just pays off. Because if you can, if you can make your lessons more efficient. If you can make the learning outcomes quicker or better, then it’s going to create capacity, it’s going to create space for you to do if we do even more thing so and it keeps paying off, right. So

yeah, couldn’t agree more.

Yeah. And it’s, it also sort of stops the trap of I’ve heard it before from a few podcasts that I listen to, and a few teachers that I really respect in the industry.

But you can take the 20 years, as long as you don’t teach the same year, 20 times. And

getting that feedback and constantly looking to improve helps with that. And it gives you a little bit more of the something to reach for. Because if you’re teaching, you know, the same content, year in year out sometimes, like, you know, if you let it it can get it can get repetitive, and you’ll get new students and you get new challenges that way. But it’s easy to get in like a little bit of a rod and you say it happen all the time.

Yeah, and you have to change, right? So if even if it’s the same content, how you make that content relevant, has to change because because students are changing the environment that they’re in, it’s changing. So

you’ve got to change, like, you got to improve, you got to get better, you got to be changing things anyway. Because Because you’re

you get different generations coming through. Oh, yeah, that’s, that’s, it’s a really, it’s a really, I love that line flow, teaching the same

class 20 times we had one of our teachers will not one of our teachers teacher at one of our schools, and t t done educator impact one year, and then she done it the second year, and

the student feedback had had shifted, you know, pretty significantly significantly enough that, you know, she was having a discussion with, with her leader about it. And,

and they were saying, we’ll look, you know, what, what, you know, what happened, let’s talk through this, you know, it’s just data is context. You know what, let’s talk about what this means. And she said, Well, you know, I chose I chose my worst class to get feedback from this year, and the principal it civil Why, why did you do that? And she goes, Well, I just really wanted to, I don’t want to be the same teacher now, in five years time. Hmm, have to find out get data from the class that I’m struggling the most with, find out is there anything in that data that’s going to help me make that class more effective, better outcomes for those students. And that was her approach to this, right. And that’s an important,

it’s an important part of what we do. So this this data that we collect to talk context driven, it’s all formatted development. This is not a high stakes outcome. There’s no you don’t do our program and get a 7.3 out of 10 for blah, blah, blah, there’s no there’s no schooling like that. It’s all about what daddy can you get to learn the thing that’s going to make a particular class or you’re teaching a little bit better. And,

and that’s that same story around teaching for 20 years, and teaching the same class for 20 years. It’s that mindset of, you know, every year, I can get better every, every term, I can get better every day and get better at teaching. So yeah, and it takes Well, you know, this is doesn’t just magically happen, you don’t put in our platform, just magically, you know, changes, it’s something you have to keep working on.

Yeah, and it is, it is tricky bringing it in. And I can imagine the pushback in some schools because it like it can if presented in, you know, particular why it could feel like, you know, especially if it’s the word assessment is getting thrown around as well. And, you know, peer assessment and Student Assessment. And those can have, you know, almost negative connotations to some to some staff as well. And it could be a little bit daunting.

Yeah, I, I totally agree. I mean, we’ve, we’ve learned a lot in the last four or five years. And when we see schools,

like succeed in this space, they have a real clear purpose for why they’re doing it. So we’ve had schools that have come up to us and said, I’ll look, you know, the whole classroom observation stuff, it’s a bit of a kickboxing exercise. And the answer is, well, it’s probably because you’re treating it like a tick tick tick box here, the science you’re not, you’re not establishing why we’re doing this, you’re not putting your passion behind it to say, we are about improvement, this is critical to our school, this is critical, critical to our culture. And every chance the lead is going to get to, you know, re engage with that, and sell that idea and get people passionate about it, and believe in it themselves. So, you know, a willing to get feedback themselves are willing to make this a priority, and be open about their own areas for improvement, you know, the schools that approach it like that succeed, and they change culture, and they improve student outcomes, the schools that go on a bit of a tick box, you know, it’s a bit of an admin thing.

Well,

that’s probably because you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re not putting in the effort to lead it and make this important, right. Because if you don’t make it important,

your stuff up, I can import and it will feel like are, you know, you just take the box, and you know, another bit of admins done, that’s what we’re, that’s what we’re about. We don’t, we don’t want our platform to be something you just doing. You go all we’ve done a UI, we want our platform to be okay. It’s not about our oz doing ours, it’s about doing you, you know, it’s about you improving, we’re trying to help you do it, not the other way around.

And that’s it. And if it’s treated like a tick box exercise, it’s going to like play out like one and you’re going to be coming away from it saying all this, you know, data analysis, whatnot, doesn’t work. And like you said, If you treat it like admin, the last thing we need to do is more admin work. So you’re not going to get anything out of it. Because that’s how you training and you mentioned culture again, which is great, because I want to go back into culture changes that you’ve seen, and you’re talking about a it was at the treasure hunt, it was cold, your your case study. So that was about a school that’s changed its culture, I’m assuming,

yeah, it says the school set up,

it’s called St. Philip’s Christian College incessant off, which is

north of Sydney near the Hunter Valley. But I’m not in the Hunter Valley. Yeah, to vary quite a grind school. But I’ve got some low socio economic area that lots of challenges. And they’ve been using our platform for for five years. So we did a case study with them around a couple of things. So we looked at the the quantitative data that we’ve collected, and how student feedback had improved across the different competencies that we look at, which was really interesting itself. But far more than the case studies about how how important this stuff is to their culture, and the expectations that everyone’s improving. You know, there’s, there’s, there’s a webinar about it as well. But, you know, we had the deputy principal talk about, you know, he went through the leadership thing, and, you know, it pretty 360 up and the staff staff Ruben was talking about all these are there is that these there is that that I can improve. And, by the way, this piece of feedback that someone’s given me,

it’s anonymous, but there’s very little I can do with that piece of feedback. So we’ve got to get better at giving feedback, and all this kind of stuff. And they’re so open. And, you know, he, he’s just an environment now, he can walk around the classrooms, and, and observations are happening all the time, and teachers are getting opportunity to observe other teachers want to learn from, and it’s a, it’s, it’s, it’s an incredible place now. So

I think that’s so within five years.

Yeah, yeah. And that’s how long these things are going to take. You know, yeah, we, when we talk to schools, we lock them to come on, normally a three year commitment with us, because the first year and the data is data is really interesting. So that the first year schools use AI, the classroom observations are normally really positive, which is fine. And then in second year, I got down a bit, and

the change that happen is going from I’m getting absorbed by my friend. And then to the second year, I’m getting absorbed by my colleague. And that the shift that happens is that instead of me, as an observer just going on, well, we don’t know what the system is, and what’s this data going to mean. And, you know, I’m worried about making you feel bad about your teaching to in the second year, I’ve got a responsibility as a colleague, to help you get better. And I’m going to find some data. And I’m going to find something from this lesson that I’m observing that I’m going to

take on board and pass back to you as some feedback for you to consider to improve from and as the shift there that happens. And then it gets even more profound in year three, where teachers move from getting feedback from peers, to getting feedback from colleagues today, and getting feedback from leaders and instructional leaders and heads of teaching learning, because they’re doing it from a place of not all, what’s this assessment going to be, it’s from have done this a couple of times, I want to get, I want to get more feedback, I want to get more more insights into how I can improve. And so it takes time, you know, it takes, you know, a good three years for that to be a really good shift.

Yeah, but I think that’s in the, in the grand scheme of things. That’s nothing three years in three years is nothing, five years is nothing.

Yeah, absolutely, yeah, totally.

And once you’ve got that culture set, its main, its maintenance, it’s keeping it up, it’s, it’s easier, once you set to, you know, you’ve once you’ve got that you’ve got that mindset of people want to grow. And people want to get that feedback from their students and their colleagues and leaders and they want to keep getting better and better when you start bringing more staff in, you know, you’re bringing people in, that have that attitude, and that fit in and that’s how they, you know, if you bring a graduate into that environment, that’s incredible. That’s an incredible learning opportunity.

Yeah, so if you think it’s going back to that, the, the treasure hunt school, that’s literally their recruitment is, you know, when new teachers come in to that school, they are told this is, this is, this is how we do it right here. This is our culture, and you don’t want to work, you’ve got to be on board with this stuff. And so they end up you know, and it just self perpetuating, like, once you create that environment, it you know,

you only bring people into the environment that want to be part of it, you know,

yeah, and when you and then once you start rotating through students, so, you know, five years is almost, I mean, I’m in a high school, so, five years is, you know, or close to the sevens of are in year 11 sort of thing. So they’re close to finishing as well. And then when you’re bringing more and more students in over those five years, it’s the only thing that know, so it becomes less of a change for everybody over time.

Yes, yeah.

Yeah, I think that’s, I think that’s awesome. And when you get what you can do in five years, it’s awesome.

Yeah, absolutely. And one of the things that it’s important, and I guess this comes back to, you know, one of the things you know, when we’re developing the platform is that if you make something easier than the status quo, right, you can enact change in your, in your, in your school, right? So, if, if the current if the current system is that, you know, professional development, I’ve got my paper, PT diary, or I’m doing x, y, and Zed, and there’s lots of admin and it’s hard to keep track of, and, you know, there’s these big PD days, etc, if you can actually shift that into an environment that’s really easy. It’s like touch, it’s on your phone, you’re learning a few things, you’re tracking few things you’re constantly thinking about, you know, you’re doing it in the classroom, if you make that an easier than the alternative, then you’ll get the change that you want.

where it falls down, is that you bring in systems or ideas, which may have the right intention, but our heart, there’s too much work, you know, it’s sluggish, it doesn’t work. It’s broken, there’s a billion excuses for someone not to engage with, and

you won’t get any change, you know, so you’ve got it, you’ve got to think about when you’re bringing change and trying to achieve things you got to think about, well, not just doesn’t work. And what’s the intention is that is actually going to make life a bit easier? And will is it going to save time, because I can I can bring in that change by saying, hey, look, we do classroom observations in our school. But it’s paper based, and there’s no, there’s no follow up. And no one really knows for the data is, and it’s a bit of a waste of time wasted time. But if we did this system, we could make it more efficient. And Baba Baba, yeah,

and that’s it. That’s it, it’s just

reversing that or getting rid of that risk that’s involved. Because like we said before, it’s an investment of time. But if you don’t think that investments going to pay off, that’s one thing. But if you come in, and you can automatically see, you know, instantly see the change and instantly say how it’s going to save you time, because, you know, it never goes well, when the meeting is, I don’t have time for you all are so we’re going to introduce this extra work. Like it’s not, it’s not going to go well. And if you like you said, there’s so many touch points there a way that you can make it run smooth, and you can make it easy. And you could make it initially almost impossible to say no to.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I think, you know, if you’re, if you’re a leader, or someone looking to initiate this kind of changing the school,

the the not was not that well, it is it’s the picture is to go. The reason we’re doing this is this because we aspire to, to to be great teachers, right. I mean, inspired to have a great culture. And because we all agree that that’s part of what we need to do, we’re going to make getting better and getting feedback on how we’re going absolutely critical to our success. And that’s why we’re doing this. And the other good news is we’ve got, we’re going to make it super easy than the current system, right, we’re actually going to replace what we currently do, which is takes, you know, 10 hours a year, whatever it is, I’m going to replace it with this thing that’s far more efficient. So you’re doing both at the same time, you you’re giving people a why. And the reason

and then you’re actually going and by the way, the payoff is we’re going to, we’re going to free up some time because we’re going to make we’re going to approach it differently. So and I think, I think if leaders or you know, in a school that wants to introduce approaches it in that way, then you’ll get you’ll get traction, you’ll get buy in and you’ll get your you know, what far more chance of succeeding over over a number of years.

Yeah, I love it. Can I could talk to you about this probably all day. But I’m not sure. I’m not sure if that will be much of a spectator sport. So we’re going to look to wrap that up. Where can people find more about you and more about what you’re doing,

they can go to educator impact.com, that’s our website. They connect, they can connect with me on LinkedIn slash i n slash can Wallace they can email Email us at Hello, educator impact.com so they can check out those things to see see what we’re doing. And if you know if there’s some of your listeners are interested in, you know,

having a little little bit more of a peek about, you know, how the system works or how the platform works, then yeah, just get in touch. And you know, we’ll we’ll share our stories and they can also check out the treasure hunt. So I think if you typed in

treasure hunt, educator impact I’ll come it’ll it’ll pop up somewhere and

just just access the as a PDF on on the story. There’s a webinar some audio as well.

Excellent. I’ll link all that up in the show notes. Yeah, sure. Awesome. Can Wallace Thank you very much.

Good to talk to you again. So hopefully we connect again.

Yes. Sounds great.

All right. Good cheers.

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